Dave “The Voice” Loomis shares a story about an ex-client that wanted to promote their high-priced products via Hubspot’s free subscription. This begged the question, when there are so many free tools available on the Internet, should you pay for marketing?



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Your co ringmasters, the dave loomis and not the rock star steve miller. Hey everybody, this is steve miller better known as kelly dad market and gunslinger. Not the rock star captain adventure. Um I’ve had many aliases in my life. Let’s just put it that.

Ok. Let’s just say I’ve needed many aliases in my life. Uh and uh I can’t, I can’t actually even confirm to you that steve miller is my real name. So just we’ll just leave it at that. And with me is my is my man, my best guy, my best guy.

You know, we are my writing partner. You know, we we we haven’t played golf together, but you know what if we did, we’d have a blast and we would have a blast doing anything together. They would make a movie and there would be like a scene montage with music just dancing around.

Exactly. Exactly, yeah. In fact, there’s one of those scenes in the movie “rrr” that you highly recommended to me and it’s worth a watch. I did, yes. The whole thing, it’s three hours long. Was I right or was I wrong?

Oh, it’s fantastic. It’s fantastic movie people highly recommend. Yeah, partly because you’ve never seen anything quite like it. It’s it’s very creative and interesting and just different, we see the same movie over and over and over again. It’s got tom cruise in it and it’s cool and it’s you know, action packed or whatever it is you’ve seen it because america we just make the same movie over and over and over again. This is a movie from india.

So david mayo loomis I want to make sure I get your name in there because I haven’t really properly introduced you. That is my that is my name. Yeah. No aliases, no aliases except the voice don’t misunderstand what he just said. Tom cruise is not in this movie.

All right. Uh I just want to make sure you understand it. But you know what go on netflix and watch are are are the letters are not the pirate sound. R. R. And you’ll love you will thank us. You will thank us for it. It is such a fun movie. You will.

You will. It is very interesting and I tell you it makes the british that really makes the look like it’s an indie movie. It’s an indian movie and it’s and it’s untitled and the dance scenes are unbelievable. They’re just so awesome. So yeah it’s it’s it’s very fun hey you know what people if people found themselves here they know who we are but this is actually the b2b marketing and sales podcast just very slowly getting he was gonna steve was probably going to get to it.

But right now they’re saying are we going to hear anything about marketing or? Well no but it’s entertaining and we gave you a good movie recommendation. We call that a referral. So that is marketing correct. It certainly is. We are we are telling you actually actually I will I will say this and I’m going to give a little tip to people about this alright that I teach what I teach and you can agree or disagree with me.

Alright. Mr voice mr voice. Right. I contend there is a difference between word of mouth and referral marketing. Okay. Word of mouth is exactly what we just did. Okay where where we had something really cool and we’re saying you gotta go do this, you gotta go watch this. Alright. It’s just like a restaurant.

We see we go eat a restaurant and we call a friend saying gosh we had said to me that is word of mouth that is unknown un uh it’s sort of unsolicited. But yeah it’s it’s like that unprovoked unprovoked mark referral you know and then referral marketing is something that we need to have a program about in our company uh referral marketing.

Um and can we switch topics and just talk about referral marketing? What about our topic for the day steve we’ve we labored over this for I’m willing I’m willing to save my note. I feel I feel like we did uh an episode on referral marketing. Okay. Alright, well let’s reinforce that again.

I’m not mentally, I’m not mentally. We may have. We may have but but I can’t I can’t push this enough that the vast majority of companies uh number one, number one, they are terrible at referral marketing. Okay. And referral marketing is where we help our customers and our contacts and we help them to refer people to us.

Alright. Word of mouth is not that that’s my that’s my contention. Okay. Great. Excellent. Okay. So what what is our topic for? Oh I know what I thought our topic is for today because this came up. This comes up to me. I see this stuff all the time.

All the time. I c I can’t believe how often I see it where people will come on to the internet. They come into linkedin. They go uh you know for the most part the business people hang out and linkedin. Um the other place that business people hang out uh is on facebook but it’s not facebook facebook, it’s in a facebook private group.

There are tons of private groups on facebook that are business focused. And there they are fantastic. I’m a member of a number of these and and they are wonderful but they don’t talk to each other, you know, just in the general feed and I spend very little time in the general facebook feed, but I go but I will go to the so so anyway, so the point is is that I so often people come in and they go and they’ll say something like um hey, does anybody have any recommendations of any marketing tools that are free?

You know, can you can you can somebody teach me how to do something using email because it’s free, you know, um or or just you know, in in general, they they’re just like, you know, they’re just like going, you know, I don’t feel like I need to spend the money to spend money on marketing and and I’m I’m like wait a minute, you know, and especially to the people that we’re talking to, we’re in the b2b world, okay. Most of the people that were talking to their selling expensive stuff.

Oh yeah, um I got a great example of that um from last week and it involves our mutual friend michelle jones who has been a guest on this michelle michelle and I have what is now a former client together and I will not say the name of the client, but I will say what this client does okay just because it’s important for the example.

Okay, this is uh, I would say it’s a startup, but they’re way past the initial stage because they have a very, very established product slash service and it’s nothing to um it’s not like something you invent in your garage. This is actually a way to disrupt the traditional medical care system by providing virtual primary care, uh including uh individual people that can um uh, advocate for you and send you to the right place for the right amount of money at the right time, etcetera.

Um but it also involves insurance, medical insurance, it’s a medical insurance replacement for traditional insurance and this is being sold through major brokers, insurance brokers to major companies. So there are there there are thousands of existing customers. Okay, so I’m just setting the stage for this situation, but i, but I want, I want to wrap this up by saying, I don’t mean wrap up what you’re saying.

I just think in a little bow here that that what you’re saying is that ultimately, this involves a lot of money. This is exactly what I’m saying. This is not pocket change and this is an established company with multiple staff members across the country, blah blah blah. There was a request made of our mutual friend, michelle two um help onboard.

The free version of hubspot. Excuse me, the free version of hubspot, they there’s no crm system or email marketing system, you know yet, but this particular company wanted to use the free, they want they want to use the free version of hubspot to market their their these services, correct? And there there is a version of hubspot that I believe is maybe 49

50 $50 a month, you know to get into like really serious um great you know extra services and it goes up from there but uh $50 a month. I mean individuals in their household, how much am I paying for all my streaming services? Speaking of movies, I mean plus my, you know internet and all that, I mean a lot more than 50 bucks a month. So this this is what is going on and I get why can’t I get netflix for free, why can’t I get hbo max for free?

Why can’t I why can’t I get all that stuff for free? Well you’ve got facebook for free but you’ve got ads and you are the product but that’s not really what we want and it’s not, it doesn’t stand up to this great example here these people to be company yeah a b2b company. They are, they are involved in something that is that is a lot of money, it’s a lot of money and they want uh and and they wanted michelle to to onboard them to the free version of hubspot, yep, to market their services, correct, correct.

And by the way the answer was no. Um but as you said, the former. Yes, yes, yes, exactly, exactly. So, um I’m with you steve and another part sort of part b of your um you know of your of the topic that that um you and I discussed was that not only do we get pressure to do things for free or to use free things and to have a small marketing budget in the first place, we’re also asked, especially as we go into recessions or slow times or something’s, you know, happening at a at a company and you all are listening, this has happened to you, where someone comes to you and says, you know, we’re going to need to have to cut that marketing budget.

Um and you say, well we cut the marketing budget last year um and we need to do these things and they say, you know, somebody then says, well look at give me the line item budget and you show it to them, and they say, my god, why are we spending so much on that trade show?

Why don’t you get a booth that’s like half the size, it’s like, yeah, but we just we just, you know, spend all this money creating this new booth. So it’s not just the booth. So, I mean it goes on and on and on with every example of something that they’re asking us to cut, correct? Yeah, the, you know, and and so what, what you’re talking about here, which is also a huge thorn in my side is this is this idea that marketing is an expense that makes it a line item in the budget because line items can be cut. All right.

That you know it’s it’s it’s like the old thing, you know like who was it was it wasn’t like a president who said he wanted to have line item veto or something like that, you know? You know and in corporations the ceos do have line item veto. And and so like you know if we use trade shows as an example.

But I think I think just in general marketing is the one where they see it as an expense. And if and if somebody sees marketing as an expense, it will always be cut when when when when somebody wants to, you know, it doesn’t even have to be a recession. It could just be a new ceo comes in or a new marketing director comes in and they want to look like a hero right out of the box.

And so what they do is they cut the budget and uh and they and they pat themselves on the back and they aren’t aren’t I smart aren’t I intelligent because I just saved us, you know, $100,000. I don’t know whatever it is. And uh and the and the point is is that number one and we’ve had this conversation before. And folks if you’re listening right now and you you have not listened to that episode, go back and find the one where we talk about, you know how to measure roi in marketing, right? Because because that’s where the that’s where the issue is.

Is that c. Sales is has is historically measurable. The sales department historically measurable. They’re not seen as overhead because they can make they can make a connection between the the expense that they put in for sales and the return that they get. It’s just so such an obvious and it’s so obvious uh and so directly connected that many sales people are, you know, partially or in some cases full commission.

Um in other words, a 1-to-1 relationship. So that’s trackable. But that’s I don’t hear about a lot of commission marketing people know and and and and I’m okay with that. But I mean, certainly you could you could tie bonuses in. Yeah, and and that and that happens, but but that that means you have to know how to connect marketing to roi so again, go back to our past episode.

Listen to that one. But in this episode, what we are trying to get you to understand, you have to pay for marketing people okay. And you have to but you have to change your mindset that marketing is not an expense. You have to treat it like an investment as if you were as if you were buying stocks and like right now, you know, as we’re recording this, you know, we’re still in the throes of the stock market, you know, you know, you know, causing pain, right? Uh and so so we’re all, all of us are looking at our portfolios and we’re trying to figure out, okay, how do we find, you know, how do we find something that we can put our money in that won’t cause us pain. So in other words, what we’re looking for is a return, we’re looking for a return on our investment, which is what roi stands for.

It’s not return on budget, it’s return on investment. And an investment is something that we expect a return on. You have to change your mindset. Uh and um and and so number one, you know, and I’m on I’m completely I know, I know, I know mr voices on on board with this too, is is that marketing is an investment, it should bring an roi you should be able to measure it.

And and, you know, you know, kind of going along with what you were talking about sometimes I often get the question. They’ll say, well, uh, how much do we spend on marketing or what percentage of our budget should we spend on marketing?

Right. I’m I’m always kind always kind of think about, well, okay, it’s really hard to answer that question. Yeah. It is, there’s a lot of statistics on it, you can look them all up and, and a lot of, a lot of us have at times and I’ve, I’ve done that too because I’ve been asked that question so many times and I can, you know, I can tell you, I mean you look it up and, and it, um, you know, it’ll, it’ll say, oh, between three and 12% depending on what industry.

Well, there’s a big difference between three and 12%. And if you’re a newer company, if you were, if it was a software company and was a startup, then you’re looking at a much, much higher percent because you need the eyeballs and the volume and, and the, the trials and, and all that stuff because you don’t have any revenue at first.

But let’s go back, let’s go back to the question I asked, let’s go back to the question. I remember I asked you this question in that episode, that previous episode, you are the only person in history who gave me the correct answer immediately and you gave it to me immediately.

I was, I actually, I think I was so shocked. I don’t think I even said anything about it. But uh, you know, and, and my question was, okay folks, let’s do it. Let me, let’s, let’s look at this from this perspective, okay, if I guaranteed you 20% return on your dollar guarantee 20% return on your dollar and, and, and fine we can, we can set a time period, we can say, okay, within six months, within a year, if I guaranteed you, I’ll say a year, if I guaranteed you 20% return on your money uh within a year, how much money would you give me?

Do you remember and you better answer it correctly again, because I know you did the first time, I’m pretty sure I said all of it, that was it, that was the answer. And you’re the first person in history. I’ve asked that question of thousands because thousands of people, you would have to really believe that that guarantee or the guarantee would have to be ironclad.

So there would be a couple of things, but there would be, if it’s true, if your, if your thought experiment is true, there’s really no reason why I wouldn’t in fact keep going, I’d go, I’d go out and borrow more. God, you are so far ahead of everybody else. That that’s what I have said to people, I will say, I have stood in front of audiences of 2000 people, I’ll ask that question and then, and then I’ll just kind of like, well jeez, I don’t know why should i, should I should i, would I even give you any money?

Why would you know, should I give you some money? You know, maybe, you know, maybe give you 1000 bucks, you know, or something like that, and I’m standing up there like this, I’m tearing my hair out and I’m going, I’m going, well, the first answer is you would give me all of your money, okay, the second and the back up to that is you would then go out and borrow as much money as you possibly could and give that to me because because because you’re being, you’re guaranteed.

So here’s c and here’s my point. My point is that that with marketing, if you if you develop a process in your marketing that you bring in qualified moose qualified target markets, people who fit the profile of your target market and have the money, the ability to pay. And if you are able to develop a system that it’s it’s like a flywheel, it’s like a flywheel.

And every time you put a dollar into that flywheel, it gives you a $1. 20. Every time you put in a dollar it gives you a $1. 20. So the question then is, well, how much money you gonna put in? So here’s a question for you, um, for that to work what you just suggested, agree with me or not, but you would have to have uh keep pretty close tabs on the fact that your investment in x. Y. Z.

Tactic was the thing that actually delivered those results. So there’s a little bit of learning by doing measuring and and metrics and and return, right? So you’re not throwing it because you’re not, you’re not saying, okay, I’m gonna get put thousands of dollars into these 10 tactics and I’m gonna I’m gonna implement them all at once without measuring.

And I got a bunch of sales back. I don’t know which one of those 10 worked. So you have to know, you have to know you have to know you have to be able to connect the dots and and and I’m sure you don’t remember this. But the way I describe it is you have to be able to connect the dots between your marketing and and and roi, but it has to be a solid line that connects the dots.

You know how sometimes you look at a map and you you know connect dots on a map or something like that. And and and the ones that are really, you know, you know you put a solid line, the ones that are a little bit questionable. Put a dot, you know, you put a dotted line or a dash line or something like that.

That’s what I can I think most companies are missing with marketing. Is it for for them connecting marketing to roi is a dash flying. Yeah. We sort of have a feeling we sort of have a feeling that this is a good thing but they can’t prove they can’t really prove it. So that’s the thing is that is that you have to you, first of all you have to understand marketing.

You have to understand that the purpose of marketing is to generate an roi. Don’t care what anybody else says. It’s it’s the same as sales. It’s to generate return, generate. Ultimately you need to generate sales. Sometimes with marketing you need the help of a salesperson, sometimes with marketing you don’t we need to help help with sales people.

The other thing is conversions for example, you know, you know you think about it and I find this statistic to be absolutely unbelievable is that is that in the b2b world back, you know, and it’s been a number of years since I’ve I’ve seen any studies on this. So so it could be a little bit different right now? I don’t think so.

Is that is that in the b2b world the the percentage, the conversion rate for the average b2b company is something in something like 5 to 10% now, what that means is that when you hand them 10 prospects that they are closing one or a half of one, that’s what that means.

You handle 10 prospects. So the question is how and in the past and I and I don’t argue with this, you know, it’s it’s it’s you know, is that they’ve they’ve said okay how do you double your return, how do you double your sales? And the answer is you double the number of prospects, you go see, okay because you can’t change the conversion rate. You can’t change that half of that 5% or 10% and I disagree because here’s how I look at it.

The way I look at it is the better job I do of understanding my marketplace and understanding my moose and finding my moose to where I am totally focused in. I’m talking to them that that and, and there’s a difference between a suspect a prospect and a lead. A suspect is somebody we think they might be, they might fit our profile, right? A prospect is somebody who does fit our profile.

Okay. And were able to find out that they fit our profile. A lead is somebody who fits our profile. So well that when we say to them, hey do you have this problem? They raised their hand so now. So see, so here’s, so here’s, let me, let me put it to you in this description.

I talk about moose that’s our target market. Okay, well the forest, a lot of different animals. Most companies, they go hunting for animals and they go and they talk to 10 animals in the forest. You know, they talked to a couple of chipmunks, they talked to some rabbits.

They talked to some bears and oh yeah, they talked to a couple of moose alright. And they closed 5-10% of those people guess who they’re closing? They’re closing the moose. So wouldn’t it be better? Wouldn’t it be smarter if in the before part of all of this you do nothing but identify the moose.

Yeah. Absolutely. So can we go back to the free part? I have another question. So for those listening, when when we started off and we said a lot of folks think marketing should be free, who do you think that is that thinks marketing should be free? Well, number one, I think that I think historically the mark, I guess I should say the marketing industry has done a terrible job.

You know, taking care of itself, the terrible job because because what what the mark because the marketing industry for the has has had such a terrible time of connecting the dots between marketing and roi that they’ve come up with with funny numbers to justify. Okay. But but who who has the impression who mostly are the people that have the impression that marketing should be free. Are you saying that that marketers say even marketers, marketers and.

Yeah. Yeah. So senior leadership because because because you know, you know the percentage of people who have been actually really taught to connect the dots with a solid line is I think it’s just abysmally slow. Yeah. I think part of the onus is on um us. If I say if I if I say that I’m a person in b2b.

Marketing and I report somewhere into senior leadership. Maybe I’m even part of senior leadership but I’m not ceo, but anywhere, it doesn’t matter what level you are. I think we need to do a better job of not just defending ourselves because the word defense to me indicates something somebody has challenged us.

And then we’re reacting and responding and saying, oh no, no, no, no, no. We really are a value. Hang on, hang on. Let me show you. I think we need to do a better job of proactively on a very regular basis, communicating to the rest of the organization everything we do and the value of the things that we do.

So, uh, I really, really think that um, marketers play an incredibly vital role in organizations usually and it is often a very overlooked role. And also, I would say half of what we do on a day to day basis, um, is not obvious.

It’s not always noticed. But we’re responding always were. I mean the, the obvious things are, oh, we placed this ad and such and such or we organized this trade show or we did this thing that everybody noticed. Uh, we came out with a new brand and tag line and we updated the website and we did all these things right?

Or we, we maybe we have some metrics on leads and other things like that. But you know what we’re doing, half of our day is spent, well, you know, hr calls and you know, they’re updating something for, you know, attraction and retention.

Can you help? Well of course we can help and we do it did we write down what we did and what value that would have been if they had purchased that on the outside and what the result was of of them doing that. I mean there’s 100 things every day. I’ve got a great example that I heard today that is um analogous to the situation.

Not exactly the same, but it’s a great idea. So somebody told me this is somebody that used to be head of of basically national count strategic sales for probably the largest commercial furniture manufacturer in the world. Um and they were in charge of many account money. I’m not gonna, I can’t say I can’t, I can’t say no it’s a very high end office furniture, high end office furniture.

And they they had an account with um a very big oil uh global oil company based in houston. And um part of the account was going to get pulled. Um or they were opening it up to some other people. And as a result um it prompted this person I was talking to today to create basically a value checklist, a value inventory of what they were actually providing to their client that the client didn’t realize.

So so the client thinks you just sell me furniture. Okay we do so much more than that and I think maybe you’ve forgotten because here’s the thing, it ended up being a four page list and not only did they list it, he attached the actual dollar value of what those services were to this list and handed it to him, the meeting went fine.

They do it now as a rule across the entire company. And he told me what happened after the meeting, he told me that the the procurement person for the big oil company took him aside and kind of like shoved him and said, yeah, he screwed it was not screw you. It was the a different word which you can imagine.

You you just, you just made me, you know, I was gonna I was gonna, you know, be a hero for bringing in this other firm too, you know, save some money on paper and now and now you made me look bad by showing me all the stuff that you do, which is kind of crazy.

But my point is we why not track if you are in b2b marketing, why not just start tracking more intentionally? All the things that you do, because I guarantee nobody notices half of it. And then the real challenge is try to create, try to attach value to it and potentially even an outcome.

So if you do a favor for somebody internally which you’re doing all the time every single day. Follow not only do it, track it, write it down, but follow up with that person to say what was the impact of what I did for you of what that follow up.

It’s gonna take a little extra time, but then you’ll have it then you’re proactive and I would contend and I would contend that that away two plus that is that you figure out a way to make that part of the, the deal, you know, where you are saying to people, here’s what we are going to deliver to you. And when they put it in those terms, like you’re talking about, they are now talking about things that are above and beyond what would normally have been expected.

You know, and and they are now separating themselves from the competition. Absolutely, absolutely. So that that is, I mean, if if if marketing is not respected as it should be, which is probably the case and folks are trying to pressure us to including ourselves, um to to try and do it on a shoestring.

If not free or nothing, then let’s not just sit back and accept it. Let’s fight back and let’s prove you gotta have, prove it, prove it the other way. That’s why I’m that’s what I’m talking about is proving to have make that solid line and we don’t know what we do.

If you don’t know how to do that. Well, you need to call one of us. I mean, I’m serious, it really is it really is we do this all the time, agencies, you know, and and they’re out there and they’re making up funny metrics, you know, I mean I have never cashed a check on awareness and I don’t think I’ve ever met anybody who cashed a check on awareness and see that’s why I say it’s got to be a solid line and you have to know how to do it and you have to be able to talk the language with your customers, with your clients uh and with your prospects that where we’re in a lot of cases you’re going to be educating them because because as like as you pointed out dave that that you know, even when you go up higher, you know in the in the in the company, you know nowadays more and more of the people up high are financial people.

Right? Nowadays you see a lot more financial people at the top of the organization, will they come from the world of just looking at the numbers, right? And so you have to talk to them in numbers. Right. Right. Right, right. And what is something that crept into my mind when you talked about awareness was awareness, you sort of, you have to have it because if someone doesn’t know that you’re there or can’t find you, they can’t engage.

But engagement is what we want and it reminded me of. Uh and this is not be to be uh this, I was in charge of, not in charge of but I was a major consultant to because I was at the parent company of a chain of 300 kitchen stores that were at outlet malls called kitchen collection and le gourmet chef.

Uh they’re both no longer um in business, but um when when I was involved, I mean we were doing we were doing well and we didn’t track awareness because it didn’t, you know, what do you do with that? But here’s what we tracked and it was fascinating. We tracked three, we tracked a lot, but we tracked three major levers that all would impact what you know, our our top line especially, which was very very important.

Okay. So we tracked footsteps, so that was uh meter that there were uh door uh counters. So whenever whenever a human being or probably not a dog, but a human being walked in the door of one of the stores, it counted it. So we knew how many footsteps there were.

Okay. Um so there that’s the engagement we’re talking about, so that does count someone’s in the store. Second of all we counted average, I’ll say closure rate, which is what percent of those footsteps bought something? Okay? And then the third was the average sale. So what when they did buy, how much did they spend on average?

And we tracked those so intensely. And what was so interesting is that you could control things that were happened by, you know? Well let’s see could we get more footsteps? How do we get more footsteps, put better signage outside to draw people in. Um can we get a higher closure rate? Yeah, we definitely can by basically engaging with the person and you know, don’t sit there, you know, talk to the customer, sell to the customer etcetera, have average sale.

Yeah. Yeah, we definitely can get the average sale up by putting um impulse items at the counter and by by suggesting very specific add ons that go with this and this and the other thing. So my point is that’s the kind of stuff that we should be doing in b in b2b. Marketing, also tracking the levers and then actually doing things to impact those levers.

Let’s let’s let’s translate that into today today, let’s let’s do it. The door front, the storefront is the website. So the footsteps are the people coming to, you know, that’s so so it’s all well and good to tell me how many people are coming in.

Okay, tell me coming in and then then where do they go? And then what what do they do? Do they leave us money or or in the case of b2b. Very often? Of course not, they’re not gonna leave us money when they come into our website. Right, so what, so how do how do we define we define it by, do they engage with us?

I’ve I’ve always called it persuasion always said awareness without persuasion is malpractice. But I think awareness without engagement is the same thing is malpractice. So we get them to engage with us and folks, let me tell you if the only engagement uh tool that you’re using on your website is are you ready for a quote?

You know, would you like a quote? Come on people that is not engagement, you’re stepping too far, you know? Well we of course you’d of course you’d love a quote and you love them to start a quote. Um and a small percentage of people may be ready to start a quote, but there’s all sorts of other steps on the way there, there’s great content that you can write that’s of value to them.

Just capture, capture their contact information and if they’ll give you a couple a couple of selections of their interest areas then that’s going to help, even that’s going to help even more. So you get that engagement, what do we call that marketing? Ah is it free?

Not if you see you still got to develop all that stuff, you got to develop the lead magnets, you gotta develop, not free. It is free. You still have to build all that stuff. Yes, you do, yes, we do because we do this because we are passionate about this.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s not free. It’s not free shouldn’t be free. We gotta track it, folks, track it, track it, prove it, prove it, prove it and and and get the budget increase, not decrease was so good.

Everything about that was solid line. It was a solid line connection cause and effect cause and effect, yep. So, so all right. I gotta get out of here because I’m getting ready to smash my computer. So, okay. Yeah, we don’t want to do that. That wouldn’t be free.

That wouldn’t be free either. He’s passionate. I know you’re passionate about this too much. I am. I’m just a little, I’m a little more reserved about it. No. Uh, so folks, I’m going to take us out. This has been the b2b marketing and sales podcast with none other than steve miller, not the rock star ,kelly’s dad, marketing gunslingers.

So, so many many aliases because you don’t really his name might not even be steve miller. It might be something else that I used o k c and the nose. But don’t call, don’t call him late to dinner and don’t call him a cab because he’s not going anywhere.

And I am dave loomis. Also known as the dave loomis, the voice other things, but I’ve never really, I’m in plain sight, but I’m not in hiding like you are. Thanks for joining us folks. This has been a ball and uh, we will see you next time.

Toodle loo. Thank you for listening to another episode of the one and only b2b. Marketing and sales podcast. The source for b2b. Marketing and sales insight. If you enjoy the podcast, please be sure to subscribe and leave these old guys at five star rating.

Check the show notes for any links and contact information. You can always contact us by going to b2bmarketingsalespodcast. Com thank you and keep on marketing. Keep on sailing.